I think it would be helpful to develop a template for use on all vocabulary pages that lists vocabulary in a table so that the lists are easier to read. A possible table format might be:
Within this table, words should be listed in alphabetical order.
Also, why are we capitalizing the English words in the definitions? I don't think they should be capitalized unless they are proper nouns.
- haesook 17:43, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
We should come up with a standard. It would also be nice to have a header to use on all of the vocabulary pages. --Mstrum 19:53, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
- If we make a table, maybe we should use a sortable table.. but if we make a table, what about sentence examples in the future?
I think sentence examples should probably be on individual vocabulary pages, what do you think? That way, when words are used on multiple vocabulary pages (most likely to happen) we don't have to worry about copying examples and things. --Mstrum 03:18, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- You need to develop a tool such as http://ezcorean.com/ezc_phrase.php which will take a sentence, analyze it into tokens (== words) and then create examples for every word, so that one sentence can be used to create as many examples as there are words. --joesp 01:29, 3 March 2010
- Do you want to expand this project to a dictionary project as well? If so then that would definitely work. --Bluesoju 04:59, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
add a dictionary project? sounds like my site. Everything is linked to search results. If when searching they click a textbox, then they will get hanja listings, else it's just the dictionary or the grammar ending sections. Searching proverbs is also a checkbox. 고사성어 results come up mixed into the ordinary search results. Then, the user can edit the search results ... there are no individual pages to construct, only entries to add or edit which are all accessible from the search results. This structure is centralized, information is held together by the software, and the software has created cross-referencing to simplify the amount of input necessary by me to create entries. For example, your hanja examples could be used to create examples of vocabulary. And, this is the problem here with koreanwikiproject site.
- Hi Joe, thanks for stopping by, i'll answer your post in this blue color. I've attempted to use your search, but it doesn't seem to be very user friendly. I have searched 창문 with the result "no such hanja or hanja reading found", then I've clicked the 한자 box and get the same result. I imagine at this point, the average user would give up. So instead , I opted to go your hanja page and just a random character from the level 8 list. I picked 산. When I clicked on it, I got other results as you mentioned, however there was no other information other than a list of vocabulary words. I had no background information on the character at all. Nothing except vocabulary words. Also for a word like 설악산 雪嶽山, I can't directly go to 雪's page like I could here. Our new template here will be able to support more info and show real life pictures showing the 한자 characters in use. After all, if you see it with your own eyes, you tend to trust it more right? By searching our site, it'll list all pages that contain that character, which I think is more effective to give the user the choice of where he wants to go. When the user searches 창문, is he more interested in the character for 窓 or for 門? Also does your search result combine results for 串 for example? Which can be 곶, 관, 천, or 찬. You say "that is the problem with kwp site, but honestly I see no problem at all. The pages already display examples, on top of that you can see where else they appear on the site, in particular a vocabulary page for a topic. Where's the problem in that?
The problem is that, unlike ezcorean.com, here if I search for 창문 I get no results. I'm sure it's an example in the hanja section somewhere. But, the person doing vocabulary can't use the fact that it's already been created in your system to save his/her time. For example, it would be very simple for me to simply create a list of the English words for a category, then query the database (which is the dictionary table, specifically) to just pull up the Korean definitions for them, rather than have to sit there and find the Korean word using naver.com or whatever. That is simply too much work!! Creating these vocabulary pages should be easier. Well, I hope that it is.
- I searched 창문 and got 6 results, so i have no idea what you're talking about. When you pull up those Korean definition querying your database, how did those definitions appear in the first place? Did you not add them manually at some point?
Overall, I am tending to see that the wiki structure has increased the edits by users, and is user-friendly to edits, but that the information is becoming disorganized as koreanwikiproject lacks backend cohesion. Hanja pages are completely separate from vocabulary is completely separate from the slang page, for example. where is this all going to go? This kind of integration is structural and needs to be set up early on as correcting it later is painful, as you have to deal not only with a new structure but data conversion as well. I think a programmer should be on this fulltime, if possible. Atleast on my site, it seems like a never-ending task. But, as I said before, I am wiki-ignorant so I can't speak intelligibly on that issue.
- Why should the vocabulary, slang, and hanja be together? For example how is Hanja in anyway related to slang? Vocabulary pages are there to teach vocabulary on a certain topic, one is not obligated to learn hanja at the same time, but if the user would like to, he could visit that hanja page if he chooses too. There is no reason he should see unrelated hanja vocabulary on the vocabulary page about a certain topic. For example if a user wants to learn vocabulary related to banking, it's probably because he needs to know, perhaps he might be going to the bank, so why would I put unrelated hanja terms not related to banking on the same page? It makes no sense and forces users to see unwanted, unrelated content.
My guess is that, like wiktionary project, you will end up with sweet large downloads of information which people then can use to create more useful sites or software because each entry is chock full of information, but which as a whole provides no functionality to actually help the language user learn the language inteactively.
- I don't understand this either. We are giving the user more flexibility on what he wants to learn without force feeding it to him. The user only views relevant information they want to view, not just stuffed with search results.
- This lovely brown color is Galinaros. Hullo. With much of what DigitalSoju already covered I agree--though, that is not to say that I am wholly on his side in every way. Those differences are trivial. More importantly, I am curious about your criticism of such efforts as the Wikitionary project, projects through which there is provided the fundamental support and basic understanding of the specific material in question. Keep in mind that these both--Wiktionary, for example, and KWP--are Wikis, and that they are not aimed specifically at giving you an "interactive" experience, but rather informing you about the meaning of a specific term you search. (This term can vary greatly, being things such as a simple word to a full grammar detail.) This being said, I come to wonder over your expectations of these consolidations. Do you expect a textbook walk-through? or something similar? Assuredly, from a Wiki in its infancy you should not. However, this is not to say that Wikis are bound without the abilities of their contributors. I must say that I am quite pleased with the effort already poured into the Hangeul learning project, and I greatly encourage more advances such as this in the future. These supplements are simply perfect for an under-documented language such as Korean. For Wikis like Wiktionary, however, there is already plenty of material online elsewhere for reinforcement. Why would you need "interactive materials" there?
- I want you to ask yourself for what you are looking from this Wiki. If you have anything to add, feel free to do so. Thanks, and good night! --Galinaros 05:26, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
I confess that I am worried about the future of koreanwikiproject being *useful* to users, and secondly, that the information is unorganized on the backend, and that the editors are creating duplicating work within the koreanwikiproject system itself.
These are my main concerns. As always, I wish your project the best. I thought it wise to offer my kind advice, and my best wishes to you here @ koreanwikiproject.com. Please accept my criticism/pointers in the spirit with which they were given.
Thank you, Joseph a.k.a. Joe
- Honestly I don't see you're concerned about, people every day have found it useful (read some comments on other sites) as well as providing information in a unique way others don't. In fact, you've used information from our site and put it on your site did you not? Therefore even as a person who already runs a site, you found it useful enough to put it on your page. While you claim your intentions are good, to be frank it seems like your current comments and past comments as well seem like you want the project to desist and instead add the content to your site. That's just how it feels sometimes. --DigitalSoju 00:06, 4 March 2010 (UTC)